drnix
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Post by drnix on Aug 19, 2013 10:10:18 GMT -5
It’s interesting we’ve all said Hitchcock. Are all De Palma film fans naturally also fans of Hitchcock? Or is it that we like the types of suspenseful thriller films that both directors specialise in? Certainly from a visual story-telling and suspenseful set-pieces aspects at least, De Palma has in many respects surpassed Hitchcock, yet he doesn’t get the same respect from the critics. I never understood the whole ‘De Palma plagiarises Hitchcock’ debate, when within thriller film trappings such films cannot help but be ‘Hitchcockian’ in nature. Hitchcock effectively built the rule book on this, but I think De Palma adds more elements and his own stamp on his films, and with the surrealist likes of Femme Fatale and Passion, De Palma effectively deconstructs the thriller genre. Some good calls on from both of you on Leone, Kubrick, Monty Python/Terry Gilliam, Scorsese & Spielberg – (though my personal opinion of Spielberg in particular is that I generally prefer his earlier films to the newer stuff ) I omitted a couple of my other favourites from my list: David Lynch & Luc Besson. De Palma aside, I think Lynch has made some of the most interesting noir-like thrillers of recent years including the likes of Blue Velvet, Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me, Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway. Besson, (ignoring the movie’s where he’s producer only) has directed some wonderful visual movies in Leon, Nikita, The Fifth Element, & Angel-A.
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drnix
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Post by drnix on Jul 26, 2013 11:53:25 GMT -5
I've always a soft spot for the John Williams score for The Fury. But hey, good list! Good call about John Williams's The Fury score, very underrated imho. I'd forgotten about that one. Mark Isham's Black Dahlia bombastic dramatic score is also another I'd overlooked.
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drnix
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Post by drnix on Jul 26, 2013 2:36:22 GMT -5
Ok so you like De Palma movies (this is a De Palma forum after all !), but who are the other directors you admire, are they all visual stylists? I'll start the ball rolling with a few of my favourites... Alfred Hitchcock (probably obvious) William Friedkin (made some great thrillers with a realistic kinetic kinetic energy) Paul Verhoeven (not just his Hollywood movies, the Fourth Man and Black Book are great films) Early John Carpenter (mainly up to his work in the mid eighties) Michael Mann
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drnix
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Post by drnix on Jul 10, 2013 2:58:47 GMT -5
Watching De Palma's back catalogue and owning quite a few soundtracks, it is startling quite how much the musical scores contribute to De Palma's sense of visual cinema. De Palma has worked with some amazing composers over the years such as Bernard Hermann, Pino Donaggio, Ennio Morricone, Patrick Doyle, Georgio Moroder and Ryuichi Sakamoto The question here what is the best De Palma score? To get the ball rolling here's my top ten: 1) Snake Eyes - Ryuichi Sakamoto 2) Passion - Pino Donaggio 3) Carlito's Way - Patrick Doyle 4) Dressed to Kill - Pino Donaggio 5) Femme Fatale - Ryuichi Sakamoto 6) Body Double - Pino Donaggio 7) The Untouchables - Ennio Morricone 8) Obsession - Bernard Hermann 9) Carrie - Pino Donaggio 10) Blow Out - Pino Donaggio + honourable mentions to Mission to Mars (Morricone), Raising Cain (Donaggio), the 2nd Carlito's Way soundtrack containing 70's funk and disco music & Scarface (Moroder) - although it's a bit dated!
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drnix
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Post by drnix on Jul 4, 2013 3:15:40 GMT -5
I watched "Passion" on YouTube the other night and the one thing that stood out the most to me was the film continues De Palma's tradition of having persona spread like a disease. The persona of Christine drives the film and changes the lives of the characters around her. Her persona is a brand she sells excellently. She treats everything and everyone like objects, even her own face which she immortalizes in the form of a mask for sex. The scene of Christine and Isabelle staring at a computer screen brings to mind a scene in "Dressed to Kill": Peter Miller (Keith Gordon) and Liz Blake (Nancy Allen) looking at the TV screen that shows the camera footage Peter captured on the gadget he created. Isabelle is very much the inventive nerd like Peter and Christine is very much like Liz the beautiful prostitute; both couples are an unlikely pair. This scene of two women watching a computer screen is repeated in the film, as is the act of laughing: Isabelle laughs genuinely at the beginning, but then tries to replicate the laugh later, but it's a clenched, forced version of its former self. De Palma shows one thing and then comments on that thing by reenacting it to reveal something new about it. Oh yes, and those shadows, even during the "daytime" had me off balance. I kept thinking "I know this is supposed to be during the day, but it's soooo dark." LOL That's a very interesting analysis. Expanding on this theme I think there is a strong argument for Christine's persona being so strong that Isabelle (initially in awe of her) wants to become her. By the end of the film it is Isabelle who has become the ruthless manipulative 'bitch' that Christine was. This of course links back to the story of the 'Afternoon of a Faun' ballet and Isabelle's own transformation after her 'sensual experiences'.
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drnix
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Passion
Jun 28, 2013 14:24:38 GMT -5
Post by drnix on Jun 28, 2013 14:24:38 GMT -5
I thought it was evident throughout the film, from the architecture and design of JJ Koch's office environment, to Isabelle's & Christine's appartments, through to the 'L'après-midi d'un faune Ballet performance'. Many scenes too feature just one or two of the main protagonists - the screen is no-where near as 'busy' as say Snake-Eyes or The Black Dahlia as examples. In Passion there is no 'clutter'. This might also be to emphasise the elements of German expressionism that appear during the film, the bright colours (particularly use of White, Black and Red in clothing and the surrounding environment), the shading, and the canted camera angles mid-way through the film. I thought it was a very interesting and successful approach. Ah, we are indeed on the same page. The German expressionism, coupled with the corporate world's Bauhaus chic, shaped this minimalist look. A big contrast to, say, the wild kitsch of Scarface. I think this shows that although De Palma is an auteur, (and as such deliberately repeats themes and style), he is always adding new elements. This shows just how versatile a director he really is.
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drnix
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Passion
Jun 28, 2013 14:14:55 GMT -5
Post by drnix on Jun 28, 2013 14:14:55 GMT -5
This is also particularly true of De Palma`s the Black Dahlia and the performances of Hilary Swank, and in particular Fiona Shaw as Ramona Linscott. Many critics hated her performance for being over the top, but to me it is darkly humerous and perfectly apt. Her final scene even takes place in front of what looks like a stage curtain and De Palma is playing games with convention. Going back to Passion one other thing that that later struck me is the minimalist clean style and approach that De Palma uses uses in this film. I don't recall seeing that so much as a feature in his other works. Good point with Fiona Shaw, that was obviously a diliberately over-the-top performance. That was one of my favorite scenes from a movie that I otherwise did not care much for. When it comes to your oint about the minimalist style, I think all his latter films from 2002 onwards have been more restrained (much to my disappointment ) - I love Brian for his fearless, operatic, deeply idiosyncratic work - the camera angles and lighting are less dramatic and the camera moves fewer and less intense nowadays, it seems. The first hour of Passion is visually very flat, I think. So to see the fireworks in the last part of the movie made me very happy. In fact I was deeply touched that this 71-year old man was able create such a brilliant piece of filmmaking this late in his career. That is definitely not something to be taken for granted. I'm surprised you didn't care for The Black Dahlia - I thought that was a very brave attempt at what is labyrinthine novel. it's very operatic (in the performances) and to me it provides some of De Palma`s most bravura set-pieces, (the Fire & Ice boxing match, the stairway/ falling/ death sequence) and some classic pieces of mis-direction (the shooting of Baxter Fitch and the discovery of the Dahlia with the wonderful crane shot), through to Mark Isham`s bombastic score. I also find it very moving with the doomed Elizabeth Short`s sad auditions. Maybe I'm biased as I love film noir I think the film also struggled critically due to unfair criticisms compared to L.A. Confidential which has a much more linear story, and also because of Josh Hartnett (after the disastrous Pearl Harbour) but I think he`s good in the role, not dissimilar to the character of Elliott Ness in the Untouchables (a good man but this time more affected by the corruption and deceit around him).
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drnix
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Passion
Jun 28, 2013 13:49:14 GMT -5
Post by drnix on Jun 28, 2013 13:49:14 GMT -5
One other question I have is whether anyone has seen the original film that Passion is based on (Crime d'amour)? I'd like to see this to see how the two films compare and work out what has been carried over from the original and what is entirely De Palma's vision. (I read for example that the twin sister story element is not in the original - please correct me if I'm wrong!) I have seen the original. I can't remember there being anything about a twin sister in the original, but I could very well be wrong. What's interesting though, is just how DePalma used that idea and ingeniously turned it into a motif of guilt, further elevating the great ending. I was never a fan of the original, which I though was quite overrated; flat and unconvincing. In fact, I though it was so mediocre that I felt it would take nothing less than a monumental effort on De Palma's part to make it worthwhile. I said several times Brian would have to completely disassemble and reinvent the film in order to make it interesting. Well, Brian did just that. So what De Palma did, was to take took what was very much a plot-based movie (hinging on a rather ludicrous plot twist at that), and turned it into something much more visual. This has to be one if the absolute best re-makes I've seen. It's really nothing like the original: only the skeleton remains. And that's the way any remake should be done. Sounds like the original isn't anything special. I think I'd still like to see it for comparison, and to see where De Palma has made changes and embellished the visual elements in particular.
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drnix
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Passion
Jun 24, 2013 3:06:32 GMT -5
Post by drnix on Jun 24, 2013 3:06:32 GMT -5
I thought it was evident throughout the film, from the architecture and design of JJ Koch's office environment, to Isabelle's & Christine's appartments, through to the 'L'après-midi d'un faune Ballet performance'. Many scenes too feature just one or two of the main protagonists - the screen is no-where near as 'busy' as say Snake-Eyes or The Black Dahlia as examples. In Passion there is no 'clutter'. This might also be to emphasise the elements of German expressionism that appear during the film, the bright colours (particularly use of White, Black and Red in clothing and the surrounding environment), the shading, and the canted camera angles mid-way through the film. I thought it was a very interesting and successful approach.
One other question I have is whether anyone has seen the original film that Passion is based on (Crime d'amour)? I'd like to see this to see how the two films compare and work out what has been carried over from the original and what is entirely De Palma's vision. (I read for example that the twin sister story element is not in the original - please correct me if I'm wrong!)
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drnix
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Passion
Jun 23, 2013 16:52:04 GMT -5
Post by drnix on Jun 23, 2013 16:52:04 GMT -5
It's interesting that you mention James Cagney, as I believe heightened theatrical performances are definitely a feature of noir of which Passion is definitely noir-ish. This is also particularly true of De Palma`s the Black Dahlia and the performances of Hilary Swank, and in particular Fiona Shaw as Ramona Linscott. Many critics hated her performance for being over the top, but to me it is darkly humerous and perfectly apt. Her final scene even takes place in front of what looks like a stage curtain and De Palma is playing games with convention.
Going back to Passion one other thing that that later struck me is the minimalist clean style and approach that De Palma uses uses in this film. I don't recall seeing that so much as a feature in his other works.
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drnix
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Passion
Jun 23, 2013 14:36:13 GMT -5
Post by drnix on Jun 23, 2013 14:36:13 GMT -5
Hi Christian, I'm glad you enjoyed Passion too. I've seen it three times now and it is amazing how many things and little tricks that you miss on first or second viewing. I only figured out on later viewings what was a dream and what wasn't (at least I think!) and that's all part of the fun. By "overt artificially" I meant that De Palma rarely makes any attempt to make his films seems "real." By this I mean that you always know you are watching a movie as this is De Palma`s style, he is obsessed with the images of film. By "heightened performances", I meant that De Palma always has an air for the theatrical, his films are high drama. You picked a perfect example with the "how about you call me....never" quote, and, another example I felt was when Isabelle was humiliated at the works party when Christine replayed her car accident accident and Isabelle breaks down hysterically. To me this almost verges on camp. I meant neither as a criticism, it is what I like about De Palma and along with his visual style is what sets him apart from other directors and what makes the film memorable. You always know when you are watching a De Palma film. I agree too that the ending was quite wonderful and was a great way to wrap up the film. Best regards Trevor
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drnix
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Passion
Jun 21, 2013 6:15:07 GMT -5
Post by drnix on Jun 21, 2013 6:15:07 GMT -5
Wow I've just seen Passion and I was blown away. Here's my brief review of the film with a couple of mild spoilers...
This is an exquisite film. Passion is playful pure cinema, full of De Palma's common themes and visual styles (voyeurism, technology, obsession, manipulation, deception, guilt, beautiful femme fatales, heightened performances, overt artificiality, deliberate tonal shifts & stylistic flourishes). Whilst the first half of the film plays as a seemingly straightforward corporate drama, replete with corporate backstabbing (and a brilliant, but frankly bonkers Pino Donaggio softcore score). All is not as it seems however, and the second half of the film takes on a completely different direction and moves into the realms of dreams within dreams and German expressionism with a trademark and quite wonderful split screen section involving Mallarmé's/Dubussy's 'Afternoon of the Faun' ballet linking the poem/ballet to a key character and murder of another. There are images and adverts of the ballet shown prior to this, and the story behind Mallarmé's poem (the awakening of a faun and the faun’s encounters with several nymphs in a dreamlike oration) is central to both to the plot of the story & the character & motivations & transformation of Isabella. (Donaggio’s score too transforms to riff’s on Bernard Hermann’s dramatic strings).
Like so many De Palma films, this gets even better with multiple viewings as you realise and understand more what about what you have and haven’t seen, what is and isn't real, & what is a dream or a re-awakening.
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drnix
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Post by drnix on Jun 16, 2013 11:54:06 GMT -5
Thanks Geoff. It'd be nice to see a theatrical release in the UK, I like to see movies on the big screen first. The last De Palma movie I managed to see in the cinema here was the Black Dahlia, I don't think Femme Fatale ever got a cinema release and could never find anywhere showing Redacted. I guess these days De Palma makes the film's that he wants to make, maybe not those that will be hugely commercially successful or likely to gain a wider audience beyond his fan base. Best, Trevor
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drnix
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Post by drnix on Jun 15, 2013 3:54:45 GMT -5
I spoke too soon. It looks like Passion isn't going to be such a big hit in Europe. It's out on blu-ray and dvd in France on 18th June, I've pre-ordered my copy as no sign of a theatrical or dvd release in the UK. Still I can't wait to see it.
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drnix
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Post by drnix on Jun 12, 2013 6:16:04 GMT -5
I think Passion will be a moderate hit, but may resonate more with European audiences given it's a remake of a French film and from what I've seen of the trailer and write-up has a very European feel to it.
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